On 8/22/11, Muhammad Umair <muhammad.umair.491@gmail.com> wrote:
> main tou professors provide nahin kar sakta campuses mein... waisay campuses
> mein kafi intelligent students hotay hain, aap un se parh lia karo...aur
> samajh lia karo.....
>
> aur aap subjective portion k liay recommended books lia karo... kamaal ki
> hoti hain woh books... samajhnay mein koi pareshani nahin aati... bas aap ki
> English itni honi chahiye k aap samajh sakain aasani se....
>
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 8:40 PM, mc080404283 Duraz Sajjad
> <mc080404283@vu.edu.pk> wrote:
>>
>> jasa paper pattern vu provide kr raha hay wo best hay.i love vu paper
>> pattern.umair g app vu may dobara admit hu jayu phir subjective krwa
>> lana.hum ko kio tension day rahay hu.na hmara koyee teacher hay jo humay
>> subjective krwa skay buss videos hay un say pori info nahi milti.agar app
>> paper patern change karwana chahtay hay tu humay vu campuses may
>> professors bi day do jo hmay teach kr skay ok.paper pattern pu wala
>> chahtay hay app aur jub teaching ki baat hu tu student khud say study kr
>> lay.app kay ya video lecture 10 year say bi ziada old hu chukay hay.daily
>> education may improvement hu rahi hay aur hum wohi purani kahania sun
>> rahay hay.jasay cs101 ki example lay lo ajj kay computer aur 10 year old
>> computer ki dunya may kitna differenc hay.vu sirf iss lia lecture upgrade
>> nahi krta kio kay phir dobara say professors ko job kay lia pay krna hu
>> ga.is lia bhtr hay jo paper pattern hay abi wo hi best hay.
>>
>> On 8/22/11, Muhammad Umair <muhammad.umair.491@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Feel free to send.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 6:56 PM, Rizwan Siddiqui <mc100200907@vu.edu.pk>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I have seen only one man is trying to destroy image of V.U.
>> >> I am sending all his mails to rector now.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 4:28 PM, Shahzad Sadiq <lushahz@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Wa'ALaikummussalam.............
>> >>>
>> >>> Please also let me have your comments about the long/essay/numerical
>> >>> questions. Are they up to the mark or are they too easy also?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Lo ji tyari kar
>> >>> lo.................
>> >>> On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 2:04 PM, Muhammad Umair
>> >>> <muhammad.umair.491@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Assalam o Alaikum
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Dr. Naveed didn't agree too much with me that change of paper pattern
>> >>>> lead to degradation of VU. But, I did give him suggestions about
>> >>>> paper
>> >>>> pattern.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Here was what I wrote to him about paper pattern.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sir, please do something of this exam pattern. MCQs paper pattern is
>> >>>> not
>> >>>> a good paper pattern.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Students get too much marks in this subjects. Too many even though
>> >>>> they
>> >>>> don't know that particular subject that well. It happened with me on
>> >>>> a
>> >>>> number of occasions too.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sir, I will give you a little example which I also give to my fellow
>> >>>> students to tell them that MCQs paper pattern is not a good paper
>> >>>> pattern and we get more marks than actually we deserve.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sir, I took admission in VU in Fall 2007 semester. Sir, at that time,
>> >>>> I
>> >>>> observed by seeing results of different subjects that how much
>> >>>> difficult
>> >>>> or easy a particular subject is. I saw the final term result of
>> >>>> Financial Management (MGT201) in Spring 2008 semester and noted that
>> >>>> there were almost 70% students who failed in this subject. No other
>> >>>> subject had higher percentage than this. I considered this subject
>> >>>> the
>> >>>> most difficult subject that was being taught at VU. And I remember
>> >>>> highest marks in that subject in that semester were 77 or 78. But no
>> >>>> one
>> >>>> got A grade. This happened when only 10-15% portion was of MCQs and
>> >>>> rest
>> >>>> of the questions were long/theoretical/numerical questions.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sir, when I see the result of this subject now a days of other
>> >>>> students.
>> >>>> They get A grade very very easily. How it is possible? Also, you can
>> >>>> check the percentage of students who fail now in this subject and
>> >>>> compare it with percentage of students who failed when there was long
>> >>>> questions paper pattern. You will come up with a huge difference.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I only talked about Financial Management above. However, you can also
>> >>>> compare percentages of other subjects that I considered too much
>> >>>> difficult by seeing their results. Some of them are Research Methods,
>> >>>> Assembly Lanauge, Statistics, Calculus, and many others.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sir, students see past papers and just memorize MCQs (most of
>> >>>> students),
>> >>>> attend the exam and manage to pass it.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sir, no one can at least memorize long questions, especially
>> >>>> numerical
>> >>>> questions can't be memorized. One has to practice them to learn.
>> >>>> Furthermore, luck can work in MCQs but not in long questions. One can
>> >>>> tick mark any option of MCQ and that option can turn out to be
>> >>>> correct.
>> >>>> But to write answers of numerical questions one has to practice and
>> >>>> learn.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sir, I have even seen such students who don't know how to compute
>> >>>> derivatives and integration in Calculus and still they pass MTH101
>> >>>> subject. This never happened in long questions paper pattern.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sir, I have seen such students who don't know how to make a balance
>> >>>> sheet or profit and loss account and still they manage to pass MGT101
>> >>>> Financial Accounting.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> same can be observed with other subjects too...
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sir, MCQs also affected some of my subjects. I got more marks in some
>> >>>> subjects when I didn't knew subject that very well.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I hope, you will look into my suggestions about exam pattern.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>
>> >>>> and see his reply..
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Umair,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> You have made your case quite strongly. I will look into the
>> >>>> statistics for the various courses you have mentioned. Changing the
>> >>>> proportion of MCQs vs Essay type questions is very doable and will
>> >>>> not
>> >>>> cause any problems (except perhaps, a longer grading time).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Please also let me have your comments about the long/essay/numerical
>> >>>> questions. Are they up to the mark or are they too easy also?
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Then I replied as follows... (check my suggestion about the fact that
>> >>>> students don't cheat in assignments)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sir, here are my comments about Long, theoretical and/or numerical
>> >>>> questions.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sir, I will talk about such questions that are given both in
>> >>>> assignments
>> >>>> and exams.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Let's talk about assignments first. Sir, I have observed that many
>> >>>> instructors don't provide such questions in assignments that can
>> >>>> judge
>> >>>> the ability of students. They give quite simple questions on
>> >>>> occasions.
>> >>>> Sir, when I studied CS410 (Visual Programming) course two semesters
>> >>>> ago.
>> >>>> It was second assignment (I think) of this course, instructor gave a
>> >>>> question to write a program and that program was NOTHING. Sir, we
>> >>>> were
>> >>>> given to write a program of which a similar coded example was given
>> >>>> in
>> >>>> handouts and you know what we had to do of ourselves to complete that
>> >>>> assignment. We were just required to change the text in double quotes
>> >>>> "Hello World" to "Student Name: this and VUID: this". Furthermore,
>> >>>> most
>> >>>> of assignments in that semester contained questions in which we were
>> >>>> asked to write answers to theoretical questions instead of programs.
>> >>>> Sir, theory does have importance in Programming, but this does not
>> >>>> mean
>> >>>> that we should give all importance to theory and very little
>> >>>> importance
>> >>>> to programming.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Secondly Sir, I have a suggestion about assignments of some subjects.
>> >>>> Sir, there is a homework helping website of U.S.A. www.cramster.com.
>> >>>> It
>> >>>> has been more than a year that I help that community in their
>> >>>> questions
>> >>>> related to Mathematics. Sir, having spent much time on that website,
>> >>>> I
>> >>>> noted many things of U.S.A.'s education that I think can be applied
>> >>>> without any difficulty to our VU education as well.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sir, once I saw a question posted on that website which was in
>> >>>> somewhat
>> >>>> following format.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Solve the following system of Linear Equations.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> x1 + x2 = 5
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 2x1 + 3x2 = a (where a is the last digit of your student ID)
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sir, VU instructors can also ask such questions in assignments (to
>> >>>> avoid
>> >>>> copy among students). This may not work in all subjects, but this
>> >>>> will
>> >>>> definitely work in many subjects like in Calculus, Differential
>> >>>> Equations, Linear Algebra, Numerical Analysis, Discrete Maths,
>> >>>> Statistics etc. etc. This will also work in some selective topics of
>> >>>> Data Structures, Algorithms, Automata. I can't say about MGT courses
>> >>>> but
>> >>>> those who are expert in MGT subjects can definitely tell you whether
>> >>>> such approach will work in such subjects or not.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sir, let's come to such type of questions in exams. Sir, I am much
>> >>>> satisfied with long questions asked in exams. But, I noted from past
>> >>>> two
>> >>>> or three semesters that in many subjects long questions of 10 marks
>> >>>> have
>> >>>> disappeared and they have been replaced by questions of 5 marks. I
>> >>>> think, long questions of 10 marks need to come back in exams too.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sir, you are right that increasing number of long questions will
>> >>>> definitely require more time to check answers. I think the only
>> >>>> choice
>> >>>> for VU will be to increase the number of tutors.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Regards
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Umair
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Fellows, what you think now about paper pattern? Dr. naveed malik is
>> >>>> looking into statistics that I mentioned in my email about MGT201
>> >>>> course
>> >>>> and also many others. It is damn true.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I hope, we will see long paper pattern again in VU.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> [image: happy.gif]
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> █████████████████████████████████████████████████
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>> >>>> friendship
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>> >>>> Islamic
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>> >>>> banned
>> >>>> in group.
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>> >>>> █████████████████████████████████████████████████
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at
>> >>>> any
>> >>>> time.
>> >>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Group Email Address:
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>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> █████████████████████████████████████████████████
>> >>> ██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
>> >>> Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for
>> >>> friendship
>> >>> purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic
>> >>> stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and
>> >>> banned
>> >>> in group.
>> >>> █████████████████████████████████████████████████
>> >>> █████████████████████████████████████████████████
>> >>>
>> >>> Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any
>> >>> time.
>> >>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
>> >>>
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> █████████████████████████████████████████████████
>> >> ██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
>> >> Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for
>> >> friendship
>> >> purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic
>> >> stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and
>> >> banned
>> >> in group.
>> >> █████████████████████████████████████████████████
>> >> █████████████████████████████████████████████████
>> >>
>> >> Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any
>> >> time.
>> >> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
>> >>
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>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > █████████████████████████████████████████████████
>> > ██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
>> > Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship
>> > purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic
>> > stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned
>> > in
>> > group.
>> > █████████████████████████████████████████████████
>> > █████████████████████████████████████████████████
>> >
>> > Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any
>> > time.
>> > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
>> >
>> > Group Email Address:
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>> >
>>
>> --
>> █████████████████████████████████████████████████
>> ██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
>> Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship
>> purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic
>> stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned
>> in group.
>> █████████████████████████████████████████████████
>> █████████████████████████████████████████████████
>>
>> Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any
>> time.
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
>>
>> Group Email Address:
>> Attock-VU-Group@Googlegroups.Com
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>
>
> --
> █████████████████████████████████████████████████
> ██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
> Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship
> purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic
> stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned in
> group.
> █████████████████████████████████████████████████
> █████████████████████████████████████████████████
>
> Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
>
> Group Email Address:
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>
--
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned in group.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
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