On 8/22/11, Muhammad Umair <muhammad.umair.491@gmail.com> wrote:
> Feel free to send.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 6:56 PM, Rizwan Siddiqui <mc100200907@vu.edu.pk>
> wrote:
>>
>> I have seen only one man is trying to destroy image of V.U.
>> I am sending all his mails to rector now.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 4:28 PM, Shahzad Sadiq <lushahz@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Wa'ALaikummussalam.............
>>>
>>> Please also let me have your comments about the long/essay/numerical
>>> questions. Are they up to the mark or are they too easy also?
>>>
>>>
>>> Lo ji tyari kar
>>> lo.................
>>> On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 2:04 PM, Muhammad Umair
>>> <muhammad.umair.491@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Assalam o Alaikum
>>>>
>>>> Dr. Naveed didn't agree too much with me that change of paper pattern
>>>> lead to degradation of VU. But, I did give him suggestions about paper
>>>> pattern.
>>>>
>>>> Here was what I wrote to him about paper pattern.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Sir, please do something of this exam pattern. MCQs paper pattern is not
>>>> a good paper pattern.
>>>>
>>>> Students get too much marks in this subjects. Too many even though they
>>>> don't know that particular subject that well. It happened with me on a
>>>> number of occasions too.
>>>>
>>>> Sir, I will give you a little example which I also give to my fellow
>>>> students to tell them that MCQs paper pattern is not a good paper
>>>> pattern and we get more marks than actually we deserve.
>>>>
>>>> Sir, I took admission in VU in Fall 2007 semester. Sir, at that time, I
>>>> observed by seeing results of different subjects that how much difficult
>>>> or easy a particular subject is. I saw the final term result of
>>>> Financial Management (MGT201) in Spring 2008 semester and noted that
>>>> there were almost 70% students who failed in this subject. No other
>>>> subject had higher percentage than this. I considered this subject the
>>>> most difficult subject that was being taught at VU. And I remember
>>>> highest marks in that subject in that semester were 77 or 78. But no one
>>>> got A grade. This happened when only 10-15% portion was of MCQs and rest
>>>> of the questions were long/theoretical/numerical questions.
>>>>
>>>> Sir, when I see the result of this subject now a days of other students.
>>>> They get A grade very very easily. How it is possible? Also, you can
>>>> check the percentage of students who fail now in this subject and
>>>> compare it with percentage of students who failed when there was long
>>>> questions paper pattern. You will come up with a huge difference.
>>>>
>>>> I only talked about Financial Management above. However, you can also
>>>> compare percentages of other subjects that I considered too much
>>>> difficult by seeing their results. Some of them are Research Methods,
>>>> Assembly Lanauge, Statistics, Calculus, and many others.
>>>>
>>>> Sir, students see past papers and just memorize MCQs (most of students),
>>>> attend the exam and manage to pass it.
>>>>
>>>> Sir, no one can at least memorize long questions, especially numerical
>>>> questions can't be memorized. One has to practice them to learn.
>>>> Furthermore, luck can work in MCQs but not in long questions. One can
>>>> tick mark any option of MCQ and that option can turn out to be correct.
>>>> But to write answers of numerical questions one has to practice and
>>>> learn.
>>>>
>>>> Sir, I have even seen such students who don't know how to compute
>>>> derivatives and integration in Calculus and still they pass MTH101
>>>> subject. This never happened in long questions paper pattern.
>>>>
>>>> Sir, I have seen such students who don't know how to make a balance
>>>> sheet or profit and loss account and still they manage to pass MGT101
>>>> Financial Accounting.
>>>>
>>>> same can be observed with other subjects too...
>>>>
>>>> Sir, MCQs also affected some of my subjects. I got more marks in some
>>>> subjects when I didn't knew subject that very well.
>>>>
>>>> I hope, you will look into my suggestions about exam pattern.
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> and see his reply..
>>>>
>>>> Umair,
>>>>
>>>> You have made your case quite strongly. I will look into the
>>>> statistics for the various courses you have mentioned. Changing the
>>>> proportion of MCQs vs Essay type questions is very doable and will not
>>>> cause any problems (except perhaps, a longer grading time).
>>>>
>>>> Please also let me have your comments about the long/essay/numerical
>>>> questions. Are they up to the mark or are they too easy also?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Then I replied as follows... (check my suggestion about the fact that
>>>> students don't cheat in assignments)
>>>>
>>>> Sir, here are my comments about Long, theoretical and/or numerical
>>>> questions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sir, I will talk about such questions that are given both in assignments
>>>> and exams.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Let's talk about assignments first. Sir, I have observed that many
>>>> instructors don't provide such questions in assignments that can judge
>>>> the ability of students. They give quite simple questions on occasions.
>>>> Sir, when I studied CS410 (Visual Programming) course two semesters ago.
>>>> It was second assignment (I think) of this course, instructor gave a
>>>> question to write a program and that program was NOTHING. Sir, we were
>>>> given to write a program of which a similar coded example was given in
>>>> handouts and you know what we had to do of ourselves to complete that
>>>> assignment. We were just required to change the text in double quotes
>>>> "Hello World" to "Student Name: this and VUID: this". Furthermore, most
>>>> of assignments in that semester contained questions in which we were
>>>> asked to write answers to theoretical questions instead of programs.
>>>> Sir, theory does have importance in Programming, but this does not mean
>>>> that we should give all importance to theory and very little importance
>>>> to programming.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Secondly Sir, I have a suggestion about assignments of some subjects.
>>>> Sir, there is a homework helping website of U.S.A. www.cramster.com. It
>>>> has been more than a year that I help that community in their questions
>>>> related to Mathematics. Sir, having spent much time on that website, I
>>>> noted many things of U.S.A.'s education that I think can be applied
>>>> without any difficulty to our VU education as well.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sir, once I saw a question posted on that website which was in somewhat
>>>> following format.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Solve the following system of Linear Equations.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> x1 + x2 = 5
>>>>
>>>> 2x1 + 3x2 = a (where a is the last digit of your student ID)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sir, VU instructors can also ask such questions in assignments (to avoid
>>>> copy among students). This may not work in all subjects, but this will
>>>> definitely work in many subjects like in Calculus, Differential
>>>> Equations, Linear Algebra, Numerical Analysis, Discrete Maths,
>>>> Statistics etc. etc. This will also work in some selective topics of
>>>> Data Structures, Algorithms, Automata. I can't say about MGT courses but
>>>> those who are expert in MGT subjects can definitely tell you whether
>>>> such approach will work in such subjects or not.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sir, let's come to such type of questions in exams. Sir, I am much
>>>> satisfied with long questions asked in exams. But, I noted from past two
>>>> or three semesters that in many subjects long questions of 10 marks have
>>>> disappeared and they have been replaced by questions of 5 marks. I
>>>> think, long questions of 10 marks need to come back in exams too.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sir, you are right that increasing number of long questions will
>>>> definitely require more time to check answers. I think the only choice
>>>> for VU will be to increase the number of tutors.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Umair
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fellows, what you think now about paper pattern? Dr. naveed malik is
>>>> looking into statistics that I mentioned in my email about MGT201 course
>>>> and also many others. It is damn true.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I hope, we will see long paper pattern again in VU.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [image: happy.gif]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>> --
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> █████████████████████████████████████████████████
>> ██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
>> Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship
>> purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic
>> stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned
>> in group.
>> █████████████████████████████████████████████████
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>>
>> Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any
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>
>
> --
> █████████████████████████████████████████████████
> ██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
> Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship
> purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic
> stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned in
> group.
> █████████████████████████████████████████████████
> █████████████████████████████████████████████████
>
> Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
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Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned in group.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
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