Saturday, August 20, 2011

Re: (Attock VU Group) my email to Registrar and Rector about VU

I think i have to go much back in my history to explain you even in more detail.

I have studied in an institution and under a board where the concept of MCQ's do not exist even today. Calculators not allowed, We got 3 hours paper made of about 30 questions carrying 100 marks. Everything is written. Nothing ever comes from book. NOTHING at all. SO no matter how much you mug up your course book, it will not benefit. One has to be conceptual.

From that mode of education, i moved to one of prestigious universities in Pakistan did my graduation. The idea was nearly same. Long questions, NO MCQ's, yeah calculators allowed and yeah questions were mostly from books. I mean slight twist is there but everything is from book.


Now lets compare the results... I was an average student in my old mode of education and i was BELOW average student in the university where i studied.

Despite having long questions pattern, university did not force me to study but rather forced many others to MUG UP. They scored well and i merely passed in 1st division.

What happens next. This topper of my batch and me both go into fields. He gets employed in UAE and i get employed at another place. After 2 years he contacts me and asks me to help him in switching to my field. I do that, i get him in my organization. We both work at same place

He fails badly and at this very moment i am ranked and valued quite highly in my firm.

By the way let me tell you umair that i am doing a job for over 6 years as on today.


You have to pick the point i am trying to explain to you. Today even when parents force their kids to study, kids dont really like it. Kids like to go their own way out.

Universities are not meant to force you or create something out of you. They are available to facilitate you in obtaining knowledge. They are here to verify that you have gained & understood knowledge at least marginally if not fully.

The question again stands still. "ARE THE QUESTIONS TESTING ANALYTICAL ABILITIES OR THE MEMORY OF A STUDENT"

You ask Long question or you ask MCQ. It really makes no difference. You have to test the analytical abilities of student.

The answer to your question as to why students are scoring differently today through MCQ is the fact that they are memorizing the past papers. Even if it is replaced with long questions and the questions are repeated or are straight forward, the point remains the same. They will only memorize.

By the way, i guess we have deviated alot from your point. Please raise back your understanding as to why you value VU's degree to be low and i would also like to know that with whom are you comparing VU.

I know the worth of VU's degree. While you go ahead with arguments, you have to understand the difference between a local university and an E-University. There is alot of difference when it comes to E-Learning and your views should be on international basis. I respect the point that you are available in Pakistan and you care as to what it luks like over there but then again VU is not a local university but an International university.

Lets hear what you have got to say.

Regards,

On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 6:23 PM, Muhammad Umair <muhammad.umair.491@gmail.com> wrote:
Agreed with your thoughts that you explained about in your first few paragraphs.

If i take your argument further and go to the concept of examinations. It is a student who has to be fair in his learning. We are not studying in kindergarten. We are getting educated in UNIVERSITY. There is alot of difference. They are not supposed to spoon feed us. They are supposed to guide us. We are the ones who have to show interest and potential. We are the one's who have to ASK questions. We have to clarify our doubts, build our understanding.

Dear, I do agree with you to some extent. There are still students who study thoroughly and are intelligent students.

But, I have another point of view and again paper pattern comes into play. Dear, when there was long questions paper pattern, students were forced to study by their university and show good results. In long question paper pattern most students knew that if they will not study, they will fail. But this is not happening with MCQs paper pattern. Students are not forced by VU to study thoroughly. 

Regarding your point about type of questions in exams. I do agree with you. It is not good to ask such type of questions to write short paragraphs, etc. in exams. VU should ask those question which test the ability of students. You know dear, when there was long questions paper pattern, even in theoretical questions, such questions were not asked. Those questions were asked in which student has to come up with his own answer and then write in his own wording. 

With subjects that require practice to learn like Mathematics, Accounting, etc. etc. I think, long numerical questioons test the ability of students. MCQs don't.









On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 8:09 PM, BlackMist <mc100200142@vu.edu.pk> wrote:
That is an honest approach Mr. Umair

Lets move on logically

When a newbie or actually newborn comes into this world, it takes its own time to grow up, get mature and then get recognized. Just like you. You are still a student with an identity. But that identity will get more known in an organization where you will work and prove your worth.

Where I do agree to your concept on examination pattern to certain extent only, i would like you to understand that the reputation of an institution is actually built by the students who graduate out of it and then enter into professional world. Institutes like LUMS, GIK, NUST, PU, UET were not known at the time they came into existence  but rather when their graduated students went out into the world.

I will give you a small example, there are 2 students i know from VU who have made some remarkable achievements. One guy one Google summer code 2010 and the other one developed an application which is now officially owned by ADOBE. Look from the view of these two companies now. They will see VU behind these 2 students.

The question is with whom you are comparing VU. With Punjab University, Karachi University ? OR are you comparing them with institutes like Superior university, UMT, Islamic International University, Iqra University etc etc etc OR going down more to those thousands of small miniature colleges and institutes which are now open even in homes and operating.

Try to understand and evaluate the worth of education and not the institute. Institute's reputations depend on what you people will do out there in market. It is YOU who are getting educated. You are the ones learning, you are the ones who will make your own worth and then your institute's.

If i take your argument further and go to the concept of examinations. It is a student who has to be fair in his learning. We are not studying in kindergarten. We are getting educated in UNIVERSITY. There is alot of difference. They are not supposed to spoon feed us. They are supposed to guide us. We are the ones who have to show interest and potential. We are the one's who have to ASK questions. We have to clarify our doubts, build our understanding.

The educational material that you are studying will be more or less same around the world. Only words re-written, more details given in the books. Education is standard my dear. You and Me cannot have different laws of physics. The algorithms you will study cannot be different from what i will study. It is mere the representation that changes.

The aggression to learn, to get educated and to make a difference in our life has to come from students. The world has entered into an era of competition. Strict competition. Those who do not compete will stay back irrespective of the fact that they are from VU or PU. A student who gets 40% in PU is no better than a student getting 40% from VU.

Just to give you an example, the topper of my batch in graduation who topped every single year and received GOLD medal actually failed in professional career so badly that he has switched 8 companies in last few years.

Putting down subjective questions does not make the point. It does not ensure that the exams are conducted in better way and a student is tested in better aspects. Your question should be "ARE THE QUESTIONS RAISED IN EXAMS STRAIGHT FORWARD OR ANALYTICAL" . The questions should not test our MEMORY but rather they should test our skills and conceptual abilities. Putting down a long 10 marks question asking you to briefly write a passage on a particular topic is NOT DIFFERENT than asking a small DIRECT MCQ with 4 options. In both cases, your memory is being tested and nothing more.

I think i have written plenty and i need to hear from you before i can actually explain things. I need to know where you are not able to pick so that i can answer those areas to you.

NO HARD FEELINGS

Best Regards,

On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Muhammad Umair <muhammad.umair.491@gmail.com> wrote:
Here is that

Dear, it is obvious that when some new institution first comes into being than people think about their standards.

I don't have any direct answers to your questions but I think that answer will be very much like the same as my above statement.

You can answer your asked questions on your own and I will agree with you.

On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 7:52 PM, BlackMist <mc100200142@vu.edu.pk> wrote:
Well unfortunately i did not receive that e-mail. Could you be generous enough to copy paste your answer right here in response. I need to hear what you have to say before i actually reply to you.!!!



On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 5:50 PM, Muhammad Umair <muhammad.umair.491@gmail.com> wrote:
I have replied that email dear. May beyou didn't receive it yet because of Gmail problem in which we receive many emails late on occasions.


Anyhow, regarding worth of VU. I referred to the issue on which we are currently having a discussion.




On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 7:44 PM, BlackMist <mc100200142@vu.edu.pk> wrote:
Dear Umair

Please prove your point. Btw let me tell you that i am a graduate from one of most reputed universities of Pakistan. Currently i am taking up last semester of MBA program from VU. SO when i am talking, i know what i am referring to. I know what is the meaning of worth of any institutes inside our outside Pakistan. You need to understand something, you cannot talk about any Pakistani institution the way we talk about Oxford, MIT, Cambridge, Howard, IIT etc.

Kindly keep this in your mind while you move on with the argument. I look forward to hear from you what you got to say in response to my previous e-mails before you left for Iftar!!!

Regards

On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 5:38 PM, Muhammad Umair <muhammad.umair.491@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear, worth of VU is not too much inside Pakistan and not abroad.


On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 6:38 PM, Rizwan Siddiqui <mc100200907@vu.edu.pk> wrote:
I cannot ignore. This is my university brother and i know the worth of it in Saudi Arabia.
Some people have the habit of abusing v.u. from start.
We should send these emails to rector as well so that he may know also that why V.U. is falling, i.e. only because of negative propaganda.



On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Muhammad Umair <muhammad.umair.491@gmail.com> wrote:
I have to go offline now as time for breaking fast is near.

I will reply this email later. OK.


On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 6:31 PM, BlackMist <mc100200142@vu.edu.pk> wrote:
My dear It is you who have to prove that VU's degree is of low value. I don't have to be admin-ant, it is rather you who has to prove otherwise.

In any case, coming back to your point  as to why organizations do not accept VU students, lets get bit logical and i expect you to read the discussion rationally and not emotionally.

When Punjab University was established, who knew it ? and how credible was its degree ? OR when Superior college which has now turned into Superior university was established how credible was that institution. More-over, Rachna College at Gujranwala which is actually a campus of UET, Lahore was established years back, despite being a regional campus  what was its value?

Please answer the above so that i can move forth with this discussion.

I would like to re-iterate that this is purely a discussion and not a personal argument. I hope we will not develop personal differences.

Regards,

On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 4:26 PM, Muhammad Umair <muhammad.umair.491@gmail.com> wrote:
when you do not admit that VU degree value is low then how discussion can proceed.

Most students here do admit that VU degree value is low.

Anyhow, tell me. If VU degree value is not low, then why many organizations now a days do not accept Vu degree. Why many organizations don't given internship to VU students? What are possible reasons of such incidents according to your knowledge?

On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 6:24 PM, BlackMist <mc100200142@vu.edu.pk> wrote:
NO i dot not admit that.

On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 4:23 PM, Muhammad Umair <muhammad.umair.491@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear BlackMist

OK. let's start with a simple question first.

Do you admit that VU degree value is low ?





On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 6:14 PM, BlackMist <mc100200142@vu.edu.pk> wrote:
Done..

Get all the students!!!... You will have to compare all evens and odds!!!! and not to draw conclusions based on single point.

Am ready...Initiate it and i will take it on!!!

On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 4:11 PM, bc090200684 Munazzah Mehak Anjum <bc090200684@vu.edu.pk> wrote:
blackmist be confident face all the students on this issue... y umair bhai alone???


On 20 August 2011 17:44, Muhammad Umair <muhammad.umair.491@gmail.com> wrote:
It is not possible to moderate any specific thread.

Furthermore, lot of emails are posted daily, therefore, it will be unwise to moderate all emails to just for one thread.


On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 4:38 PM, BlackMist <mc100200142@vu.edu.pk> wrote:
Lets play this game on fair grounds. If Mr. Umair is willing and if any of this group's mod is ready to moderate that thread to ensure that only Umair's and my posts are allowed, i am ready to go on 1-2-1 argument with Mr. Umair and i will refute his logical arguments.

This is an open invitation Mr. Umair, either accept it or stop complaining from now on.

On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 8:07 AM, mc110200415 Muhammad Habib Ur Rehman <mc110200415@vu.edu.pk> wrote:
Dear Umair, why you got admission in VU?
Because no other university was accepting you because of your low levels/marks in previous degrees.
Firms Always follow whole degrees not only last degree.
Your Blame on VU is wrong dear.

On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 10:41 PM, mc100207308 Muhammad Jamil <mc100207308@vu.edu.pk> wrote:
Please tell me how to share my market sheet here (i mean how to copy it from the website) I tried but just text is copied instead of whole picture.....?


On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 9:36 PM, Shazia <shazia277@gmail.com> wrote:
humnnnn.............

On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 6:30 PM, Muhammad Umair <muhammad.umair.491@gmail.com> wrote:
meri English itni improve hai k main angrezon se har roz message kar k baat karta hota hoon... aur woh meri baatain samajh bhi letay hain....aur main bhi un ki baatain samajh leta hoon... is se ziada kia improve ho gi English.....


On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 8:17 PM, Pak Revolution <mc100400208@vu.edu.pk> wrote:
yahna English main bat karny sy hi English improve ho gi janab

On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Muhammad Umair <muhammad.umair.491@gmail.com> wrote:
kia urdu likhna gunah hai....

aur yahan ham groups mein baat kar rahay hain, kisi professional jagah par baat nahin kar rahay...

aur aap baat kartay ho English ki.. tou meri English itni achhi hai k main doosron ko apnay points theek tarah se convey kar sakta hoon...


aur registrar aur rector sab ko bhi email main nay English mein ki thi, kyun k wahan professionalism chahiye tha... yahan nahin chahiye...ok..



On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 4:22 PM, mc110200415 Muhammad Habib Ur Rehman <mc110200415@vu.edu.pk> wrote:
Shafiq Anwar this is not for you this if for Umair


On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 4:20 PM, mc080400769 Muhammad Shafiq Anwar <mc080400769@vu.edu.pk> wrote:

Mr. Habib Mention any sentecne that i used in Urdu. read my whole mail with open eyes please and then comment on it.

On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 12:14 PM, mc110200415 Muhammad Habib Ur Rehman <mc110200415@vu.edu.pk> wrote:
Most of of your replies hare are in URDU, How a multinational firm will give you job?
Admit your mistakes.


On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 4:02 PM, mc110200415 Muhammad Habib Ur Rehman <mc110200415@vu.edu.pk> wrote:
In these days most jobs are not degree based but experienced based.

On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 4:01 PM, mc110200415 Muhammad Habib Ur Rehman <mc110200415@vu.edu.pk> wrote:
Umair at this time you have not even follow current exam system, how you will follow OPEN BOOK exams?


On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Muhammad Umair <muhammad.umair.491@gmail.com> wrote:
aisi koi bari baat nahin hai yeh.. VU mein offline exams bhi hotay thay tou tab bhi yehi university thi...


On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 3:03 PM, BlackMist <mc100200142@vu.edu.pk> wrote:
You missed one important point umair. This is E-University :)

On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 12:57 PM, Muhammad Umair <muhammad.umair.491@gmail.com> wrote:
top 10 universities mein aik aur paper pattern bhi hota hai..

OPEN BOOK exams...

tou phir VU ko woh bih shuroo karna chahiye.....

OPEN BOOK exams mein conceptual questions hotay hain, aur wohi pass hotay hai jis nay parha hota hai.... book se ham sirf formula type cheezain dekh saktay hain par answer hamain directly book mein solved nahin miltay...

kia khayal hai is paper pattern  k baray mein ?

On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 11:52 AM, mc110200415 Muhammad Habib Ur Rehman <mc110200415@vu.edu.pk> wrote:
Stop these types of nonsense.
MCQs method of examination is used all developed countries even in world top 10 universities.
Secondly the Degree is not just for job. You can get job even without degree if you are expert in any field.
I am a professional in a multinational firm and I have interviewed lot of persons who passed even from top Pakistani universities like BZU etc but most passed students even not have basic knowladge of IT.
Also MBBS degree not means you have a good doctor. You need proper practice to become a good dector.




On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 11:33 AM, mc080400405 Sajid Mohy Ul Din <mc080400405@vu.edu.pk> wrote:
ager umair VU ki study itni ee asaan hy tu tum ny 8 semester ku laga dyee....hum tu 4th main clear ker k agay study ker rahy haan ?


On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 4:10 AM, Muhammad Umair <muhammad.umair.491@gmail.com> wrote:
VU's degree value is low because you are degrading it, not others. 

I think, I was responsible when organizations started saying that we don't accept VU degree. I think they heard my voice. I think, the company who displayed in her job ad "Except Virtual University" heard my voice.

Stop these irrelevant thoughts and discuss the facts.



On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 12:07 AM, Pappu Pager <bc100200308@vu.edu.pk> wrote:
MCQs based system is being used throughout the world. Cambridge Education system which well known for its standards also use MCQs based examination system. Further, if you look around, other universities and degree awarding institutes like University of Karachi, NED, IBA use MCQs based and Subjective system together. 

VU's degree value is low because you are degrading it, not others. Search facebook or linkedin and you will find thousands of professionals with exceptional careers who studied in Virtual University. 

Check this linkedin link. (You will have to login at Linkedin before visiting this link)






On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 10:44 PM, Shazia <shazia277@gmail.com> wrote:
waalikumasalam..........
perfectly written.........this is the ri8 way to express urself.........


On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Muhammad Umair <muhammad.umair.491@gmail.com> wrote:
Assalam o Alaikum

Dear friends, main nay rector sab aur Registrar sab ko yeh email ki hai VU ki degree value k hawalay se.. aap bhi parhain aur comment karain.... reply aaya tou aap se zaroor share karoon ga...ok..


===========================================================

Assalam o Alaikum


Respected Sir,

            Now-a-days, we frequently hear that market value of VU Degree is low and many organizations don't offer jobs to VU students, don't give internship to VU students, etc. etc.


Different people will give different reasons about why VU degree value is low. As a student who has studied last 8 semesters in VU, I have my own thoughts why VU degree value is low. In fact, it was not low, but suddenly, due to some change in VU system, degree value got low. I will explain here what that change was.


Sir, up to Spring 2008 semester, VU had long paper pattern in which 85-90% questions were long questions and only 10-15% questions were MCQs based. However, when in Fall 2008 semester, the number of students who took admission in VU increased too much, VU changed the paper pattern. Now, the question arises why paper pattern was changed when long questions paper pattern was adopted by VU ever since its existence. I think, that VU exam department thought that it will be almost impossible to check such a large number of assignments, mid-term exams and final term exams with existing staff. Therefore, we change the paper pattern to MCQs. MCQs will be checked by computer and this way we will be able to serve the students. This change in exam pattern lead to the degradation of VU Degree. Now-a-days, we see that most students prepare MCQs from past papers and as a result pass the exam without or with much less effort. Even, many students just attend MCQs both in mid-term and final term exam and still manage to pass the subject (They don't do it with all subjects, just in some selective subject in which they feel too much difficulty).

 

Sir! Everyone knows that when there was long questions paper pattern, no one used to say that VU degree has low value. We did not hear any single such instance in which a VU student was said while applying for job that we don't accept VU Degree. We never heard of any instance in which some organization denied a VU student for internship. But now-a-days, we frequently hear about such instances.

 

MCQs paper pattern may be good with some theoretical subjects BUT MCQs paper pattern can never ever be a good paper pattern for subjects in which we need to solve numerical questions like Accounting, Statistics, Mathematics, Programming and many others. No one can become a better Accountant, Statistician, Mathematician or a programmer by just solving MCQs.

 

Sir, we see that admissions in VU are lowering from past two or three semesters. When, VU used to provide quality education then admissions in every semester were increasing. Now, they are lowering which indicates that VU education system has some fault in it.

 

Sir, I want to see VU at the same place where it was when there was long questions paper pattern An era when no one used to degrade VU. No one used to say that we don't offer jobs to VU students, no one used to say that we don't provide internship to VU students and so on.

 

Sir! MCQs paper pattern have some many faults in it. I mentioned some of them above. With MCQs paper pattern, many students get marks that they actually don't deserve. We even see that those students pass in exam that even don't know ABC of some particular subject in which they appear. They do it by just solving MCQs.

 

Sir, when there was long paper pattern, only those students passed the exam that used to study, but very sad to say that with this MCQs paper pattern, those students also pass who do not study.

 

Sir! You, me as well as every VU student will love to see VU's degree value much higher than what it is today. To do so, I think, VU should change the paper pattern to long questions in the upcoming semester. Not only change the paper pattern, but also change the mode of exam and exam timing. In long questions paper pattern, mid-term online exams was 1:30 hrs, final term 2:30 hrs, mid-term offline exam 1 hr, final-term offline exam 2:00 hrs.

 

Sir, I think that when No. of students increased too much in Fall 2008 semseter. Wrong step was taken by VU to change the exam paper. VU should have increased number of staff at that point.

 

Sir, it is my humble request to you to understand the reasons due to which VU's degree has low market value and then try your best to remove those reasons so that we can again see VU at the place where it was 3 or 4 years back when no one degraded VU.


Your Student

Muhammad Umair




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█████████████████████████████████████████████████
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Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
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--
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned in group.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
 
Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
 
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--
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned in group.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
 
Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
 
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█████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned in group.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
 
Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
 
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--
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned in group.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
 
Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
 
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--
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned in group.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
 
Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
 
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--
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned in group.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
 
Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
 
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█████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned in group.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
 
Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
 
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--
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned in group.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
 
Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
 
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--

on the way to 

Master of Computer Science (MCS)

3rd Semester and Proud to be a Cyberian

Off course

after Muslim and Pakistani


--
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned in group.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
 
Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
 
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--
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned in group.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
 
Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
 
Group Email Address:
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--






***Ya Allah! grant us good in this world and good in the hereafter,
and save us from the chastisement of the fire***

--
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned in group.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
 
Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
 
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--

-------

Muhammad Jamil
MBA (3rd Semester)
Islamabad


--
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned in group.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
 
Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
 
Group Email Address:
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--
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned in group.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
 
Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
 
Group Email Address:
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--
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned in group.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
 
Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
 
Group Email Address:
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--
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned in group.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
 
Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
 
Group Email Address:
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--
With Regards 
Munazzah Mehak Anjum 

--
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned in group.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
 
Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
 
Group Email Address:
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█████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned in group.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
 
Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
 
Group Email Address:
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█████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned in group.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
 
Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
 
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█████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned in group.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
 
Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
 
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█████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned in group.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
 
Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
 
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Attock-VU-Group+Subscribe@Googlegroups.Com
 
████████████ Click here to Join this group at Facebook:████████████
♥ ♥ ♥ https://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_111877855568034 ♥ ♥ ♥
█████████████████████████████████████████████████

--
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned in group.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
 
Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
 
Group Email Address:
Attock-VU-Group@Googlegroups.Com
 
Join group by sending a blank email from University ID at:
Attock-VU-Group+Subscribe@Googlegroups.Com
 
████████████ Click here to Join this group at Facebook:████████████
♥ ♥ ♥ https://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_111877855568034 ♥ ♥ ♥
█████████████████████████████████████████████████

--
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned in group.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
 
Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
 
Group Email Address:
Attock-VU-Group@Googlegroups.Com
 
Join group by sending a blank email from University ID at:
Attock-VU-Group+Subscribe@Googlegroups.Com
 
████████████ Click here to Join this group at Facebook:████████████
♥ ♥ ♥ https://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_111877855568034 ♥ ♥ ♥
█████████████████████████████████████████████████

--
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned in group.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
 
Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
 
Group Email Address:
Attock-VU-Group@Googlegroups.Com
 
Join group by sending a blank email from University ID at:
Attock-VU-Group+Subscribe@Googlegroups.Com
 
████████████ Click here to Join this group at Facebook:████████████
♥ ♥ ♥ https://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_111877855568034 ♥ ♥ ♥
█████████████████████████████████████████████████

--
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned in group.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
 
Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
 
Group Email Address:
Attock-VU-Group@Googlegroups.Com
 
Join group by sending a blank email from University ID at:
Attock-VU-Group+Subscribe@Googlegroups.Com
 
████████████ Click here to Join this group at Facebook:████████████
♥ ♥ ♥ https://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_111877855568034 ♥ ♥ ♥
█████████████████████████████████████████████████

--
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned in group.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
 
Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
 
Group Email Address:
Attock-VU-Group@Googlegroups.Com
 
Join group by sending a blank email from University ID at:
Attock-VU-Group+Subscribe@Googlegroups.Com
 
████████████ Click here to Join this group at Facebook:████████████
♥ ♥ ♥ https://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_111877855568034 ♥ ♥ ♥
█████████████████████████████████████████████████

--
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned in group.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
 
Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
 
Group Email Address:
Attock-VU-Group@Googlegroups.Com
 
Join group by sending a blank email from University ID at:
Attock-VU-Group+Subscribe@Googlegroups.Com
 
████████████ Click here to Join this group at Facebook:████████████
♥ ♥ ♥ https://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_111877855568034 ♥ ♥ ♥
█████████████████████████████████████████████████

--
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned in group.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
 
Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
 
Group Email Address:
Attock-VU-Group@Googlegroups.Com
 
Join group by sending a blank email from University ID at:
Attock-VU-Group+Subscribe@Googlegroups.Com
 
████████████ Click here to Join this group at Facebook:████████████
♥ ♥ ♥ https://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_111877855568034 ♥ ♥ ♥
█████████████████████████████████████████████████

--
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned in group.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
 
Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
 
Group Email Address:
Attock-VU-Group@Googlegroups.Com
 
Join group by sending a blank email from University ID at:
Attock-VU-Group+Subscribe@Googlegroups.Com
 
████████████ Click here to Join this group at Facebook:████████████
♥ ♥ ♥ https://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_111877855568034 ♥ ♥ ♥
█████████████████████████████████████████████████

--
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned in group.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
 
Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
 
Group Email Address:
Attock-VU-Group@Googlegroups.Com
 
Join group by sending a blank email from University ID at:
Attock-VU-Group+Subscribe@Googlegroups.Com
 
████████████ Click here to Join this group at Facebook:████████████
♥ ♥ ♥ https://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_111877855568034 ♥ ♥ ♥
█████████████████████████████████████████████████

--
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned in group.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
 
Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
 
Group Email Address:
Attock-VU-Group@Googlegroups.Com
 
Join group by sending a blank email from University ID at:
Attock-VU-Group+Subscribe@Googlegroups.Com
 
████████████ Click here to Join this group at Facebook:████████████
♥ ♥ ♥ https://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_111877855568034 ♥ ♥ ♥
█████████████████████████████████████████████████

--
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████ Basic Group Rules ███████████████████
Immoral & Rudish talk, Earning program links, Cell number for friendship purpose, Websites/Groups Links, Adult contents, Criticize-able Islamic stuff, Spreading disruption, Spamming are strictly prohibited and banned in group.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
 
Follow these detailed Group Rules, otherwise you will be banned at any time.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxA8x3_U7C1lRc0EXfLrJpco4A1XkB1vDxOTqOd3Jg/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNDy9tkJ
 
Group Email Address:
Attock-VU-Group@Googlegroups.Com
 
Join group by sending a blank email from University ID at:
Attock-VU-Group+Subscribe@Googlegroups.Com
 
████████████ Click here to Join this group at Facebook:████████████
♥ ♥ ♥ https://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_111877855568034 ♥ ♥ ♥
█████████████████████████████████████████████████

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